Waste Spark Circuit  |

Hydrogen Hot Rod

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Welcome this Page has some interest items, we keep there areas open source and remind you to please subscribe and donate to keep this information here and shared 

We can offer complete units or parts ,  Assembled engines require multi orders .

as time passes things spread and become easier we invite you all to use the info and build accordingly.

Hydrogen Hot Rod

2 Ways

BOTH WITH FUEL INJECTION Zero ambient air

1 GTNT Explosive

( if we adjust the burn rate of this way it is same as gasoline  so no timing modifications  are required.) positive ground

2 HHO Implosive ,

both  way need zero air intake. or minimum and air must be positive

4 Stroke Conversion to HHO Implosion 2 Stroke Explained. Conversion of the 4 stroke internal combustion engine to a new way of doing things.

 

Pure HHO  ignited in a vaccum turns back to water by an implosion from 1800 parts to 1 part ratio (1800:1). In doing so this sudden change at ignition becomes an implosion in a vacuum.

 

This video has 3 animations of... 1. the 4 stroke engine run on petroleum/gasoline. 2. the 4 stroke Internal Combustion Engine converted to 2 stroke Internal Implosion Engine to run on pure HHO, having 5 distinct cycles... i) Intake ii) Decompression (more Vacuum) iii)

 

Firing iv) Implosion (power cycle [most of stroke]) v) Exhaust 3. Both animations side by side of similar cycles, slowed and paused to catch up to the other.

 

 GTNT is Explosive for of HHO and must be cut with EGR.

Basic Waste Spark

Circuit Rail

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Order  Parts

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Hall Sensor Circuit Waste Spark Timing conversion
Small Gensets
Very Useful Circuit  
CDI Ignition Circuit Waste Spark Timing Spark Conversion
Small Gensets
Very Useful Circuit  
Pwm Timing Adjust TDc.png
Timing Calibrate
Circuit
Small Gensets
Very Useful Circuit  
110v/220v to 12v 9XD Circuit  Waste Spark 
Small Gensets
Very Useful Circuit  
Waste Spark Ignition Coil Hydrogn HHo Ge
Ignition Coil  Waste Spark Timing conversion
Small Gensets
Very Useful Circuit  
Hho genset hall waste spark system.png
Complete Rail Circuit
Timing conversion
Small Gensets
Very Useful Circuit  

Advanced Optional Features  Waste Spark Circuit 

Hydrogen Genset Generator Water Spark Au

 

Engine Options

Several design of Genset are available and also being further expanded. 

In order to AVOID future misunderstandings, I decided to write this overview/explanation

but first, I wish to make some VERY IMPORTANT statements and I ask ALL readers:

Please make sure you UNDERSTAND them!

The VOLUME and QUALITY of   GTNT will depend almost ENTIRELY on what kind of on demand gas system is used. 

INTENTION (with the numerous building blocks of the ECU) is to provide anyone who is willing to ‘get their hands dirty’ with the necessary CONTROL ELECTRONICS to achieve their goal.

 IF we are to use the old, rather crude and VERY inefficient (around 26%) Internal Combustion Engine at all, we need to provide it with ignition sparks at the correct times, supply fuel (in this case, GTNT) at the correct times and in correct volumes.

Further, the fuel pressure needs to be held steady (pressure regulation) and the power required to create the GTNT also needs to be supplied AND controlled (limited).

The need for all this control is INDEPENDENT of the method used for generating the required volume of GTNT  In other words, REGARDLESS of which method of GTNT generation is employed, the supply & controls described above are ESSENTIAL. However, you have probably noticed that I offer additional circuits as well, not absolutely necessary but desirable for a smooth working control system and power back up (for example: automatic battery charger circuit).

There is also a convenient control panel where all adjustment are made and pressure, current and voltage levels are SET and DISPLAYED.

Note that I choose the name Engine Control Unit (ECU) deliberately as its functions are similar to that of the existing systems used by car manufacturers. However, all unnecessary functions of the ‘standard’ ECU have been left out! On the other hand, its functions are expanded to include the power supply AND control to create the FUEL itself, GTNT All circuit sections are mainly ANALOG, using common, cheap and readily available components. (NO ‘microprocessors’, NO complex software programming!)

News

1. Control panel circuit diagram, pcb layout and control box description

2. Infra red transmitter & receiver circuits used by the two stage Voltrolysis 

water refilling system

3. Hall switch circuit with a buffer stage which eliminates RF interference pick-up! 

Hydrogen Genset Generator Water Spark Au
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Features Include 
- Auto Refill
- Auto Start 
- Fuel Injector
- TDC Timing Adjust 
- Auto Rpm Adjust
- Auto Gas Pressure Start 
- Battery Charger 
- Saftey Pressure Cut off 
- Ir INfra Red Remote Start
- 5kw to 10 Kw of Power in 110v or 220 v 50hz.60hz 
- Voltrolysis Unit and Control 
- No Salts or Electrolytes 
- Voltage Controllers 
- Innovative Low Amp Production of Fuel Gas 
- MIl Spec Connectors Water Proof 
- Robust Portable Design 
- Waste Spark Mitigation 
- CDI Ignition 
- Low Maintenance
- Easy and Automatic Operation
- Optional Timer 
- Opation PCL Panel with 5 Meter Extension Lead

Ecu Asembly 2.png

Special thanks to Les Banki

and the worlds people in the Hydrogen on Demand Industry. 

 

All of whom that have helped share to us through him and through other means .

 

Which allows this page to exist for making sharing and supporting the basic understanding shown in these methods to run engine on water fuels.

Daniel Donatelli

Special Note Some names reference and pictures have been modified to streamline and focus the years of knowledge presented in this page specifically.

 

Designs are not just Analog they are Pulse Width Proportional hybrid
Analog/Digital.

 

If one can translate a control system to an entirely linear system
then one can model it entirely as control sequences and pulse-proportional
modules.

 

(PID proportional control is actually pulse-proportional where the circuit
attempts to learn one important proportionality hidden variable of the system by
operational trial and error. Not required here.)

If one can translate control entirely to linear systems then one can ignore the
non-linear control laws which most often result in the more complex differential
equations intermediates.

 Efficiency calculations can then be looked at as linear
equations.

 

Somewhat along the same lines with the system in question.  What I hear you saying is;
"Get the subsystem function from whatever the source you can, over unity comes with it.

 

Then carefully construct a demand control structure so that as the next subsystem raises
vs lowers it's energy demand, the current subsystem raises or lower it's demand in response."

 

Which make the chain efficiency more or less constant by PWP means.

 

Try to get the HydrOdxy to stay at a constant pressure so the proportioning injector can accurately
control how much hydrogen is injected into the engine manifold based in energy demand.

Avoid those subsystems that attempt to run at constant fixed power level then behave
very inefficiently at demand limits.

---

Ok..Thanks. You've made something very valuable available to us here.

Thank you very much for your kind words and even more thanks for your SUPERB analysis!

While highly "technical", I sincerely hope that your analysis does not fly above too many heads here!

Watse Spark Hall STIM Test Oscillator
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3._Ignition_&_Injection_control_module 
Hydrogen Control Panel Engine genset gen

 THE CIRCUIT LIST

1kw to 10 kw Genset

1. Hall switch – tiny pcb, mounted on the engine. With a small permanent magnet attached to the exhaust valve’s ‘rocker arm’, it supplies pulses to the Ignition/Injection control module. These pulses indicate the piston’s position in the engine’s work cycle.

2. Capacitor Discharge Ignition (CDI) module – when connected to an ignition coil, it creates the required high voltage (20,000V+) to fire the spark plug.

3. Ignition & Injection control module – supplies the control pulses to the CDI module (WHEN to deliver the sparks) and the drive pulses to the injection solenoid.

4. Automatic RPM control PCB 1 and PCB 2 – automatically brings engine speed from start-up to the correct RPM where the generator supplies approx. 240V with a frequency of 50Hz.

5.  Feed-back control loop – to maintain a STEADY frequency (50Hz) and voltage (240V) output with varying loads.

6. EGR Exhaust Gas Recycle  - No Circuit manual setting  to maintain a slower burn speed for the hydrogen mixture and reduce the amount of fuel needed. 

7. Auto start – simple circuit which activates the remote control for 3 seconds to start the generator when the set gas pressure is reached.

8. Pressure regulator module – decides the desired pressure ‘scale’ (PSI, kPA or whatever), Sets and displays the pressure limit and continuously monitors and displays (on the control panel) the actual pressure.

9. Battery charger – automatic charger, used to maintain FULL charge AT ALL TIMES on a stand-by battery which will be necessary once mains power is no longer connected. (for re-start after maintenance stops) 8Power supply (regulator) module – supplies +12V-1, +12V-2, -12V, +5V and -5V to the various modules and sensors.

10. Water level sensor & pump driver 1 – used to automatically detect the minimum water level in the electrolyzer unit and refill to the set maximum level when necessary.used to detect the minimum (Danger!) water level in the flash-back arrestor and SHUTS DOWN the electrolyzer power supply! Can also be used (with a second pump) for automatic re-fill  

11.  Saftey Circuit

 

12. Relay board – a universal AC/DC 30A relay with a 12V DC coil, transistor driver and indicator LED. Can be configured for either start-up/run or for general HIGH power switching and is used mainly with the timer & timer interphase circuit.

13. Timer & timer interphase module – while NOT essential, it is VERY ‘handy’, particularly for REPEATED experiments. It eliminates time measuring errors and a lot of ‘guess work’. Also eliminates large mechanical power switches! It can also be used to stop the engine/generator after a pre-set time (up to 24 hours!) ''' Test oscillator''' – it is powered up ONLY during set-up (when the engine is not turning there are NO pulses from the Hall switch) it provides the pulses needed for testing.

However, since this oscillator is NOT used during normal operation, if desired, it could be used to flash the LED which indicates power SHUT DOWN to the electrolyzer in the event the flash-back arrestor’s water level drops too LOW.

14. Control panel – See circuit description for the functions which can be SET and DISPLAYED.

Closing notes:

Once again, as indicated in this overview, not all circuits are being used at the same time

Summary 

Well, just about every engine BRAND and MODEL is different. Some may be able to be modified like that above, some won’t. And so, here is the BIG question:

Fit a small magnet to the exhaust valve’s rocker arm, attach the tiny Hall switch pcb to the engine block and then turn a potentiometer on the control panel to set your desired ignition point, continuously variable +/- 45° from TDC, while the engine is running!

 CDI system draws only 0.5A. MAXIMUM power draw is 6W!! 

Voltolysis Cell

9XD   –Power Control circuit  dc power to 9xb Takes 110v or 220 v and turns it into dc 12v

9XB   –Voltrolysis Circuit Driver Make a Special Signal for the Voltrolysis Cell

Switch –Controls Ac into and Variac and than DC Voltrolysis into cell ( Gates the Pwm)

                with electron extraction

 

Variac -Variac controls power to switch  and voltage levels

Choke - Bifilar Choke Restrict amps and allows voltage to take over doing work. 

Voltrolysis Cell - Voltrolysis Cell 9 tube 16 inch to 18 inch 7 LPM of Gas 

Inline Flash Arrestor Wittgas Filter/flash arrestor / check valve 

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1. The Hall Switch

 

HHO Genset Waste Spark Hydrogen
HHO Genset Waste Spark Hydrogen
HHO Genset Waste Spark Hydrogen

Ignition system for small engines running

on GTNT ONLY  It should be obvious that with GTNT as the ONLY fuel, the use of 2 stroke engines are ruled out since they require oil to be mixed with their fuel for lubrication.

Therefore, only 4 stroke engines will be considered in this brief.

First, some engine data.

The crank shaft on a 4 stroke engine turns twice (720º) for every ‘work’ cycle. Since most (if not all) small engine designs use a magnet on the fly wheel (which is mounted on the crankshaft) to generate the ignition sparks, 2 sparks are delivered for every work cycle.

 

The second spark (which is delivered during the exhaust stroke) is NOT needed and so it is called “waste spark”. With hydrocarbon fuels it is harmless.

However, with GTNT ONLY, this “waste spark” MUST be eliminated.With hydrocarbon fuels, ignition usually takes place around 8º before TDC to allow some atomization of the fuel before the actual ‘explosion’, which occurs approximately 10º after TDC.

If GTNT is ignited at ANY point before the piston has reached TDC, the explosion takes place at that INSTANT. (There is NO delay or atomization here since it ‘burns’ about 1000 times faster than hydrocarbon fuels and it could be said that it is not ‘burning’ but exploding!)

 

The force of the explosion instantly tries to push the piston DOWN when it is still trying to come to the top to complete its compression stroke!  That is most undesirable!

When the ignition is delayed (retarded) to the point where the explosion usually occurs with hydrocarbon fuels (around 10º after TDC) then the piston’s downward movement is reinforced and useful work is gained.

Now, consider what would happen if the waste spark was NOT eliminated. As stated above, the crankshaft revolves twice for every ‘work’ cycle.

 

(The first revolution covers the intake and compression stroke and the second one the power and exhaust stroke.) Thus, the second spark (‘waste spark’) occurs just before (the same degree of advance as the wanted spark, about 8º) before TDC at the end of the exhaust stroke.

But when the ignition pulse is delayed to be after TDC, the waste spark will occur at the beginning of a new ‘cycle’, where the intake valve has just started to open.

So now, with a slightly open valve there is an open path to the fuel line (Hydroxy), and there comes a spark! Guess what happens… Guaranteed back fire!

And I can assure you that even the most minute opening will allow the ‘flame front’ to propagate back to the supply line. How do I know? Experience. Lots of it.

Further,   “flash-back arrestor”, since that is their true role.

Stopping flash backs traveling back to your Voltrolysis Unit and DESTROY it, by all means, ignore the advice. Not only will you DESTROY your Voltrolysis but very likely injure or even KILL yourself and/or others!

An example of engine calculations:

I bought a new, 118cc, one cylinder, 4 stroke petrol engine for GTNT experiments. Its rated max. output is 4 horsepower (2960W) at 3600RPM. For the ease of calculations, lets round up the capacity to 120cc (0.12L) This is the maximum volume of air/fuel mixture it can suck in during its intake cycle.

As stated before, the engine’s ‘work’ cycle number is half the crankshaft revolution.

Thus, at 3600RPM, the number of fuel intakes is 1800/minute. 1800 x 0.12L = 216L/minute

However, as only 1% of QUALITY GTNT(mixed with 99% of air) is needed to obtain the same power as petrol, this 120cc engine should require only 2.16L/minute of GTNT to run at 3600RPM!! (Naturally, it would require less at lower speeds. It remains to be seen if it will require more under full load than this calculated volume.)

Now a few notes about the necessary ignition delay and how to achieve it.

In one article it was suggested that one could use a 555 ICto delay the ignition pulse. Yes, that could be done but it would only be correct at ONE speed.

 

The reason is obvious:

Ignition advance/delay is related to piston position, NOT time. It is expressed in ‘degrees’ but for hydrocarbon fuels it is varied slightly with engine speed. (due to its relatively slow burning) With GTNT ignition will take place at the same ‘degree’, (same position of the piston) regardless of engine speed.

 

At this stage, a couple of things are clear already:

One: on my test engine (and I dare say on most, it not all, small engines) it is not possible (meaning: NOT practical) to eliminate the ‘waste sparks’.

Two, there is NO provision for ignition timing adjustments, neither mechanical, nor electronic.

In other words, the existing ignition systems used on small engines are USELESS for GTNT. We need a NEW electronic ignition system, complete with ADJUSTABLE delay.

So how can that be done?

Again, two revolutions of the crankshaft is 720º (two circles but one ‘work cycle’).

The camshaft, (controlling the valves) however, turns only ONCE, which is 360º.

In electronic terms, that is 100%.

We want to delay the ignition timing from where it is now, say, from 8º before TDC to 10º after TDC. That is a delay of 18º.

The equation is: 360 : 100 = 18 : X Re-arranging it: 360X = 1800, X = 5

In other words, 18º is 5% of 360º.

We need to delay our original ignition pulse by 5%, irrespective of frequency. (the ‘frequency’ here is the engine’s revolution)

The above example serves to illustrate the difference between the ‘old’ and the ‘new’ settings, assuming that the degree settings relate to the camshaft revolution, 360º.

However, as I understand it, the ignition advance/retard degrees are usually expressed in terms of crankshaft degrees (720° - two revolutions of the crankshaft)

In that case, the above percentage of 5% is halved. Then, 18º is 2.5% of 720º

Since we need a NEW ignition system, this ‘delay’ will no longer relate to the ‘old’ setting. A new signal is taken from a sensor (Hall switch) mounted on the engine, detecting the intake (or exhaust) valve’s position.

 

Using the signal from this sensor, the ignition spark could be made to occur anywhere but we want it approx. 10º (or more) after TDC (adjustable within a few degrees)

Of course, our reference is still TDC.

When we express all that in electronic signal terms, the intake stroke (piston travels from TDC to BDC) is ¼ of the engine’s work cycle, which is 25% of our wave form. (90º of the work cycle and 180º of crankshaft rotation)

If we transform the delays from degrees to percentage, we get the following figures:

10º ATDC is a delay of ~1.39%

25º “ ~3.47%

So, if we want the adjustment range of 10º - 25º, the percentage difference is 2.08%.

[We can also calculate the elapsed time this translates to, for any given speed. For example: at 3600RPM, the ‘frequency’ is 30Hz. One period is 1/30 = 0.0333sec. Thus, a 1.39% delay means that the piston has traveled (from TDC) for 463.3µs to reach the position of 10º ATDC (relating to crankshaft revolution)]

One simple way to implement these delays is to use a PWM (Pulse Width Modulator) circuit, which is my preferred choice. (How this is done will be described in detail in a technical “circuit description”.)

It needs to be pointed out that the ignition system for GTNT ONLY (not just a booster) will be very different from ignition systems for hydrocarbon fuels.

It will be significantly simpler.

There will be

  • NO “speed mapping”,

  • NO “load mapping”,

  • NO retard/advance change with engine RPM,

  • NO rich/lean mixture setting,

  • NO cold start setting,

  • NO “knock sensor”,

  • NO fuel/air temperature sensor,

  • NO Oxygen sensor, etc., etc., (“modern” engines are full of all that rubbish!)

  • NO need for high energy sparks, multiple sparks, etc.

Further, there will be NO such thing as UNBURNED fuel remaining in the cylinders!!

In short; when we get to the larger engines (cars), the first thing we have to do is to rip out the “computer” and install our own system, incorporating electronic injection as well

 

. (Perhaps another option could be to completely re-program the ‘computer’, provided that one could obtain the original programming software from the manufacturer, which, I would say, is HIGHLY unlikely!)

I am in favor of electronic injection (but ONLY for GTNT ) for two reasons:

1. I reason that if we allow GTNT  to flow continuously, some of it may disappear during the other ¾ of the engine’s work cycle. (the intake stroke is only ¼ cycle)

2. If GTNT is ALWAYS present in the intake manifold, we may risk a damaging back fire.

I am aiming at a mainly analog design, using parts available everywhere and are dirt cheap!

Should a fault occur, it will be quick, easy and cheap to repair.

Watse Spark Hall STIM Test Oscillator
Hall STIM Test  Circuit
Small Gensets
Very Useful Circuit  
STim Test Oscillator f.png

1.1 The Hall

STIM Test Oscillator

 

Important notes about the Ignition & Injection control circuit and Test Oscillator

While this control circuit is relatively simple, testing and adjustments DO require some test equipment AND a certain degree of knowledge in electronics.

 

Unless you have both, (or know someone who does and is willing to help you) you should NOT attempt to duplicate this circuit.

If you decide to go ahead, you should be aware of the following:

Unlike the CDI module (which creates the ignition sparks), this Ignition/Injection control circuit cannot be tested/adjusted without a dual trace oscilloscope !

Even if you buy a ready made board, it may still need to be re-adjusted (perhaps only slightly) to suit your particular engine type!

The reason is that the position of the pulses delivered by the Hall switch depends on how and where the activating magnet is attached to the engine.

This design is based on Hall switch US2881UA, made by Melexis.

It has very high sensitivity and is Bipolar.

 

That means both polarity (N & S) of the magnet can be used for switching but that too will affect the pulse position slightly. (However, other types of Hall switches can also be used, with or without modifications.)

For the above reasons, the EXACT pulse position in the engine’s working cycle can only be determined by electronic measurements when everything is in place and the engine is turning! (by hand or by starter motor)

If all this appears to be somewhat complicated, well, it is!

But there is more.

 

The pulse input circuit has a relatively high input impedance (determined by R10, 100k). If the Hall sensor end of a long wire is left open (not terminated) it is prone to pick up interference which upsets operation.

 

(For example, should it pick up mains hum (50Hz), it may deliver sparks at mains frequency rate, without the engine turning!)

 

Once the Hall sensor is connected, everything is fine since it has a LOW impedance output. Still, I suggest you keep the connecting cable (3 wires) to the Hall sensor as short as practical. Shielded cable is recommended.

For set-up & testing purposes, the pulses normally coming from the Hall switch must be substituted with some other signal source.

To eliminate the need for a dedicated pulse generator, I am offering a very simple design of a 4046 (PLL) based square wave oscillator.

 

(VCO) (Note: It does not have to be low duty cycle pulse since the input of the control circuit ONLY responds to the RISING EDGE of the waveform.)

I choose to put this simple circuit on a separate (small) circuit board and it is intended to be PERMANENTLY attached to the system but only connected (powered up) during set-up and testing.

 

There is not much to be said about this very basic circuit but perhaps I should mention that its frequency range is restricted to approx. 1Hz - 40Hz.

The restricted range also eliminates the possibility of setting incorrect frequencies.